Now that we’re living in the obviously-dubbed “Information Age”, the statement “Keeping up with the news is a full-time job” has become an overused cliché…still, that doesn’t stop it from being true. Acclaimed journalist and nonfiction novelist Sean Moore does it for a living--he’s won many awards, including the Pulitzer, the Media Recognition Award, and the African-American Achievement Award. And when New World Monthly asked me to sit down with him for an interview about his new book on superhumans, They Walk Among Us , I couldn’t have been more pleased…it’s rare that I get the opportunity to pick the brain of someone so in-tune with one of the largest issues facing our culture.
NWM: The first thing that comes to mind about your book has to be the title. It sounds vaguely ominous, like a tagline from a 50’s alien movie, or those posters they put up in Paris in the 1620’s, about that secret society. “The Rosicrucians are amongst you…visibly and invisibly.
SM: (laughs) Oh, God, five seconds into it, and you’ve already sniffed out my influences! If I’m this open of a book, I’d better get out of here! (pretends to get up, sits back down, laughs) Doctors make the worst patients, and journalists make the worst interview subjects, right? But, yeah, I’ve always been horrible with titles. I thought it ultimately fit, though.
And about the posters…hey, today’s graffiti isn’t so different. Whenever I drive through Gothametropolis York, I see lots of spraypainted warnings about urban legends and stuff like that.
The title seemed to mess with people’s expectations. You’ve received some criticism that you’re too soft on superhumans in this…
Yeah, well, from what I’ve seen, it’s all coming from people firmly on the anti-superhuman bandwagon…and I’m not on any bandwagon. The book is just about presenting the facts as best I can, and my interpretation of those facts--I’m not moralizing one way or the other.
Still, the book does seem to have a slightly uneasy tinge to it…
That just can’t be avoided. We live in a world where the guy in the elevator with you might be able to reduce you to atoms if he looks at you funny. Whether they label him as a hero or a villain, the mere fact that he can do that…well, it takes some getting used to. I don’t know if it can be gotten used to.
You spend a good portion of the book talking about how much new information humanity has had to absorb, in a relatively short amount of time. How much does that factor into the superhuman phenomenon?
So much so that it can’t be stated strongly enough. Think about it--we now know that aliens are real. We know that magic is real. We know that there are other realities, and that gods and angels and demons are all running around. This is a lot to take in, especially after millenia of egocentric philosophy.
I mean, first--with no evidence other than a sense of self-importance--we thought that the Earth was the center of the solar system. Then, exactly the same way, we thought we were the only race in the universe. We didn’t have the whole picture, but we just assumed, and anyone who questioned it was regarded as crazy. And now we know that not only are we not alone, but we’re on a pretty low rung of the proverbial food chain.
And superheroes are arguably at the center of all this…
Exactly. They kicked it all off--one day we woke up, and someone else was the new top dog. And now, what--sixty years later--it’s growing exponentially. It’s a lot for the human psyche to handle. At this point, the mass consciousness is about as beat up as Michael Jackson’s career. (laughs) Seriously, all of our old foundations were already falling apart--
--spoken like a true Gen-Xer--
--ha, yeah, the superhuman stuff just took what was already happening, took our increasing sense of mortality, and made it more obvious. Suddenly we have to rethink everything, because the stuff we thought was true and reliable actually isn’t. Postmodernism run amok, or something like that.
But at the same time, humanity--or rather, elements of it--are seeming more unstoppable all the time. How does that work together?
It’s a weird, weird balance. Well, not even a balance…more like dynamic tension. Our senses of vulnerability and capability are increasing at the same time. I don’t know, maybe that’s the way it’s always been, but we’re just now realizing it.
This is the part where I try to trick you into commenting on superhuman detractors.
Oh, we’re at the “Sean opens up for lawsuits” portion of the program, are we? (laughs) Run some names by me.
…and now it’s my turn to potentially get in trouble, but I’m going to turn the tables on you and ask you to do the running. In your opinion, which detractors have valid concerns, and which don’t?
Well, you’ve always got the conspiracy people--and now that a lot of the conspiracies have been proven to be true, I think they’ve gotten a little high on the rush.
I mean, you’ve got people like David Icke saying “Hey, I always said that shapeshifting draconic aliens were going to invade Earth…and here’s Fin Fang Foom, in a position to screw with our global defense!” And with the evidence we have, I think that’s crap, sorry. The destruction of the Makluan race is pretty well-documented.
…and a while ago, the Lair Legion used reality-altering technology to cover up their existence and make the world look normal…
Ha, yeah, good point. Of course, anything is possible--but anonymous sources have shown me proof that, in my opinion, proves that they’re gone.
But, getting back to the other detractors…a lot of them have concerns that deserve to be addressed. I mean, the simple truth is that the superhuman community is pretty much self-policing, and we ‘normals’ have no real control over them. They’re secretive, they don’t answer to anyone…we aren’t used to that. We’re used to democracy, where--at least in theory--the people are in control. But there’s no real system of checks and balances for superhumans.
Any more groups that you think are overreacting?
Well, of course, we’ve got the religious extremists. They seem to think that it’s the Lair Legion’s fault that gods--other than their own gods--are known to exist. And they aren’t too happy about Sorceress using magic, either.
Personally, I’ve never seen what they’re upset about…since Donar and others exist, it makes it more likely that their own deities exist. Now that mysticism has got hard evidence behind it, the public has gone from “That stuff can’t be real” to “Whoa, that stuff is real!” Churches should be thrilled! Of course, given that many religions are based on supernatural events that look pretty low-budget compared to what the LL does on a weekly basis, I can see why they might feel threatened…
But overall, I don’t think they should feel threatened, because the existence of, say, aliens or whatever doesn’t suddenly invalidate their religion. So long as their book doesn’t say “And there are no alien dragons”, they should be okay. And a number of smaller churches, in many regions and religions, are surprisingly pro-superhuman. It’s the big figureheads that are scared of the political ramifications, and the people who are terrified of all the changes, and superhumans are an easy scapegoat.
Despite the detractors, superhumans seem to be making strides in terms of gaining the public’s trust. Why do you think that’s happening?
A large part of it--not to be too shameless (laughs)--is because of the “Survivor Stories” series of books. Which, I admit, is published by my bosses.
I was--this is going to sound like namedropping, but it isn’t, really--I was in the Parodyverse Emporium Publishing office when Colin first brought it up. Of course, he had this whole idea to record the experiences of people who were saved by superheroes, or other mysterious forces, and put them all in one volume. And there were more incidents than he’d ever expected, so, twelve volumes later…
It became kind of a more relevant “Chicken Soup for the Soul”, right?
Yeah, you just stole that from the back cover.
…I did? Gahh! Bad subconscious, bad! I thought I’d thought of that myself. But, anyway, would you say that superheroes have been helped by the world’s focus on information?
Oh, absolutely. It was like everyone realized that they weren’t--well, I can’t think of a more dignified way to say “Tooting their own horns”. Everyone found out about the casual, daily things they do to help, which they never talk about. And as thousands and thousands of pages pile up about how much good they’ve done, the detractors seem less and less relevant. They [the detractors--ed.] always claimed that, as more of the truth came out, the superheroes would look worse…but the more we find out, the better they look.
And, frankly, that’s a new experience for humanity. We’re used to being disappointed and betrayed by those with power, but it looks like people like the LL actually have our best interests at heart, which is seriously creepy--though it really shouldn’t be. We just don’t know how to react.
Are you noticing changes in children who have grown up during this era of superhumans, and the children who grew up before that?
I can remember when my friends’ kids would look at a cartoon on TV, which had laserguns and robots and mad scientists, and their parents would tell them that it wasn’t real…and then, the exact same thing would be on the news, and the kids would be completely confused. Now, today’s kids can tell the difference without many problems. I hesitate to say that they’re ‘desensitized’, but, since they’ve never known the world to be any other way…
I’d like to talk about your take on the superhuman power structure. Specifically, the Lair Legion…you have a few chapters on their “open conspiracy”, and how you suspect they have many secret, far-reaching alliances.
Not to sound too egotistical, but, I don’t think that--in many cases, I know it. Jamie Bautista and Bautista Enterprises are one obvious example. Many high-ranking SPUD agents have made pro-LL comments. They have diplomatic relationships with kingdoms here on Earth, on other planets, and in other dimensions. And experts at the top of almost every field, from biophysics to magic to exploring, have worked with the LL at one point or another.
We’re talking about superhuman resources, here--they can call on a vast array of specialists and influential individuals. I mean, I’d kill to see their rolodex, it has to be the size of an elephant…
And it used to be that, if these people wanted to do good, the government was their only option.
…and then the LL comes along, and the government’s talent pool is suddenly drained. They just aren’t as sophisticated as they used to be, especially in terms of technology. The Jamie Bautistas of the world are saying “Screw you, I’m going to make weapons for them, not you, because they’re more trustworthy.” So, the alliances are definitely ruffling bureaucratic feathers.
And these alliances include people who help them out financially, right?
Yeah--the Bautista Foundation claims to provide most of their funding, but I personally think that it’s split up between, oh, four or five powerful groups and/or individuals. I don’t see the LL putting all their eggs in one basket.
And for the record, the LL is a tax-exempt, not-for-profit organization. Though they’ve had disagreements with various governments, the US and the UN have given them all sorts of special considerations. The current authorities pretty much have to go with the flow…what else can they do? There’s no real precedent for getting rid of a superhuman organization.
Sure, the Bavarians and the Chinese outlawed secret societies in the 1700’s, and the Knights Templar were dissolved by papal decree…but this is completely different. As they’ve proven, they could just go underground. And they might take it as a sign of war, because some of the superhumans have said that the people don’t have enough power as it is…I think the only thing that stops them from taking down the corrupt governments of the world is the fact that we’d all be caught in the middle. But, I think they’re taking subtle, safe steps towards improving things, too.
In your estimation, what kind of groups and individuals fund them?
People in the know, for lack of a better term. People who travel in the same circles. Either superhumans, or those mixed up in superhuman activities.
And when I talk about “superhumans”, I don’t just mean people with powers. Some superhumans teach themselves magic, or how to fight, or they build high-tech weaponry…or they just have abilities natural to their species. For instance, theoretically, most power-dampeners shouldn’t work on Fin Fang Foom, as he doesn’t technically have powers--he can do what all Makluans could do. The same goes for robots, other aliens, whatever.
Among detractors, there’s been a lot of suspicion that the LL is acting on behalf of those funding them…
I value proof more than suspicion, and I haven’t seen any proof that the LL has ever been anything other than completely impartial. I can name maybe one or two questionable situations, but they aren’t the kind of thing where anyone benefits.
Like, say, the rumors that they have an unofficial truce with Messenger?
That’s one I was thinking of. Messenger is obviously acting on his own, and he can’t be paying them to leave him alone…so no, I don’t see how money could tie into that matter.
There’s been speculation of dissent in the LL over the Messenger issue. Hatman made several comments which seemed to indicate that he didn’t approve of the vigilante’s actions…
Hatman has been the last, best hope of the more traditional politicians. He has a respect for authority, he’s basically an everyman…the theory is that he influences the team’s direction, and keeps it from getting “too” proactive.
And now he isn’t as involved, and Goldeneyed has stepped up to the plate…
Yeah, anything could happen, there. He’s young, optimistic, and he isn’t afraid to voice his opinion…he has Washington terrified, basically.
Politics is something that’s rarely talked about in conjunction with superheroes. What’s your take on the LL’s politics?
Obviously, they’re an extremely diverse group, and they don’t always seem to agree on everything. I think they transcend “human” politics. Judging from what they’ve said in public, their worldview is much larger, as they’ve experienced so much beyond Earth and the everyday world.
But, really, we can only guess. We don’t know that much about any of them, especially when you factor in the possibility of secret identities. How do we know that Dancer doesn’t magically transform into her true self, a high-ranking Parliament member, when she’s off-duty? And Fin Fang Foom may say he has no other identity, but he could be anyone--or multiple anyones. They probably have more power and influence than we’ll ever find out about.
And now we’re getting back to that vague unease, the knowledge that they can really do anything, be anyone, find out anything.
We’re talking about telepathy, invisibility, people who can walk through walls and teleport, and they have to have high-tech spying equipment that we can’t even dream of…there was a “true privacy” idea, which was an ideological side-effect of atheism. Basically, it meant that no-one is looking over our shoulder, so we can do whatever we want. We aren’t accountable to anyone, to a reasonable degree, because we all have our privacy.
But now, superhumans could always be watching, and we’d never know it--until we cross the line, and they jump out of the shadows. It goes back to that old puritanical philosophy of “I’m not going to do this because I fear punishment”, rather than “I’m not going to do this because I personally decided not to.” It’s one of the more frightening aspects of all this.
The stuff of conspiracy theories. Speaking of which--
But it’s frightening because superheroes are the next generation of external consciences that we’ve built for ourselves, to keep us in check. You could argue the law was a more primitive version of that. But why write rules on paper when society can create beings that are somewhat all-knowing and all-powerful, to do the same thing?
Hey, don’t interrupt! (laughs) I was trying to say, speaking of conspiracy theories, have you heard any new rumors, lately?
(laughs) I’m not much closer to the inside than you are.
Come on, you have to have heard something…
Oh, stories are always floating around. One of the new ones is kind of interesting, actually--remember how the city gave the LL its mansion? Well, of course, even before that, there were whispers about occult practices being done there…the rumor goes, the government put them there in hopes that ghosts or something would kill them. Seriously.
That’s actually a pretty decent plan, so it can’t be government-issue. Any others?
The League of Regulars has been so quiet, some people think it’s just a cover for some LL secret project. If you wanted to make an organization look harmless, you’d put people like Visionary and Yo in it, right? But, at the same time, some people think that the division is evidence of a falling-out between the founders and the current LL.
Which brings up a good question--how do the superheroes relate to each other? In terms of the power structure, I mean. Do they have an unwritten policy that they leave each other alone, as we might have seen with Messenger?
There’s been a lot of debate, but I haven’t seen enough hard evidence to support any one theory. We’re talking about something psychological and relational, so it’s tough to really find any proof, beyond reading into a few scant comments made to reporters.
On some level, many of them are friends--and, admittedly, some are more than that. As seen with Hatman and Messenger, I’d say it’s safe to assume that some are rivals, or even enemies. But at the end of the day, they’re all on the same side.
Considering how much we’ve talked about the LL, we haven’t touched on the Fin Fang Foom issue much…some say he’s too aggressive, and others say he isn’t aggressive enough. Appointing a non-human, apparently non-American leader definitely upset the more traditional elements of society. What’s your take on him?
He’s a hero, but the controversy around him, and the supposed threat he might pose, is all overhyped. In a way, he’s helping to define the tone of the LL, but they’ll exist whether he’s there or not. The side-issues surrounding him--his alleged relationships, how he handled the Vorrow incident, his rumored alliance with The Dark Knight--they don’t factor into the larger superhuman equation.
Speaking of The Dark Knight…real or not?
I haven’t ever met him, so I can’t say for sure. If he’s real, I think his operations extend far beyond GMY…there are a ton of unexplained crime-related incidents all over the world. Some kind of advanced vigilante is hitting operations that international law-enforcement groups couldn’t even find, so someone is out there.
Quite a few major figures have made comments about the supposed youth of the current LL--what’s your take on that?
Most of the time, people don’t get into power until they’re older. And by then, they have to be careful, or they could lose their careers. They have to watch what they say, they have to treat some people better than others…but superhumans get power instantly, and they can say practically anything and keep their “careers”.
Is superheroing a career?
Weird fact--many heroes don’t seem to pay taxes. But they aren’t technically American citizens, so they don’t have to, anyway. They get room and board, and with all the friends in high places they have, I don’t think they’re hurting for money. So long as they’re connected to one of the major groups, anyway.
What major groups are there, now?
There are quite a few outside America, but we don’t hear about them as much. I’ve heard rumors of a fleet of pilots that are operating in Russia, flying reverse-engineered UFOs. They’re supposedly fighting some secret war in the sky. There are quite a few vigilantes operating in the urban areas of China, Japan, other Asian countries…organized crime is a huge problem there. I’m talking more about gun-toting, John-Woo-style superhumans, not necessarily costumed individuals.
Of course, the UK is reported to have a lot of mystical activity. There are a few bright, “traditional” superheroes operating in Europe at the moment--mostly young women, actually. Here in the states, the Abandoned Legion is still out there, presumably, and there’s been rumblings about them re-organizing.
And with all the changes in Starcross, Georgia, it can’t be long before superhumans start popping up there…
There’s been a lot of conspiracy theories that Starcross is the LL’s first big step in changing the world…would you say that’s accurate?
They obviously couldn’t have planned this, but they made the most of the situation. We already have advanced tech coming into the world, through a small collection of geniuses…this won’t be much different. In the near-future, things will keep getting more advanced, as they always have--but it won’t be that noticeable. In the long-term, we could become a melting pot for everywhere, or we could finally have flying cars. Who knows?
The times are a little dark right now, a little uncertain…but humanity always wakes up and remembers what it’s capable of. What life can be like, if we let it. I think we’re going to see a huge wave of optimism, as the younger generations take over, both in terms of superheroes and society at large. We’ve got some issues to get over before that happens, but when it does, look out. And that’s my cheesy statement for the day. (laughs)
Living in the 21st century is an adventure, right?
I think superheroes are people who woke up one day and said to themselves, “It’s the 21st century--time to start acting like it.”
But, yeah, of course it’s an adventure! We could all get wiped out tomorrow, or we could find out that reincarnation is actually real, or a robot could announce her intention to run for President. A mutant could fall for you, and you could find out the benefits of using antigravity powers while--wait, this is a general-audience magazine, I’d better not talk about that. (laughs)
Really…I think that living in a world like this has freed a lot of people from their illusions. Practically everything we ever hoped and feared has turned out to be true, and the malaise that came with being a plain reality is completely gone.
So what’s the bottom line of all this?
The bottom line is, superhumanity and humanity--the same thing, really, but we feel the need to split them up--are going to go somewhere together. With our voices, we can help determine where that is. What more could you ask for?
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